INTERVIEWS WITH CROATIAN FREEMASONS

B. Horvat: "If Freemasonry dealt with politics, it would be ruined long time ago" (15.07.1995)

Last year freemasons legally renewed work in Croatia, after half a century long prohibition of their activity. They are registered at Croatian Ministry of Administration as a civil association under name of Grand Lodge of Croatia and ahead with Mr. Branimir Horvat, typographer and art historian. Motive for this interview with Mr. Branimir Horvat are recently frequent ideas of renewal of some kind of Yugoslavian association, the more so the part of Croatian public considers freemasons helped creation of Yugoslavian state in the past.
Mr. Horvat didn’t want his photo to be published with this interview claiming that freemasons consider newspaper interviews should not be used for personal promotion.

Number of our members is constantly increasing, but not to fast, since it is not easy to become freemason. It is not a mass organization. We take care and check whom we take among us. Our members should respect principles and obligations of Freemasonry. Receipt procedure could last for more than one year.
Before 1940 when authorities of Banovina Croatia prohibited work of freemasons, what was cession to Axis Forces, there were five hundred of freemasons in Croatia. To reach this number again it will take few decades of work.

Grand Lodge of Austria founded Lodge in Croatia. We are still under its protection, although we work completely independently as Croatian Lodge. According to the rules, our country to get internationally recognized masonic organization, has to have defined number of members and at least three lodges which with help of one existing Grand Lodge, than can form own Grand Lodge. It is necessary to have defined number of master masons for each Lodge so it can operate.
Masonic organization in Croatia is now just about getting international regularity. Austrian Grand Lodge informed us that it would assist establishing of our three lodges this autumn (1995). But, between establishing the Grand Lodge and getting its international regularity it can pass sometimes as much as two years. It is complex and slow procedure, due to thorough check of new organization and its members. For Croatian Lodge this procedure goes on successfully. I already said once that international recognition for one Grand Lodge has the same importance as reception of one country to United Nations.

Distrust towards Croatia, which exists in some circles, reflects on freemasons, too. Although freemasons do not deal actively with politics we should bear in mind that complete today’s life is penetrated with politics.

It is believed that freemasons took part in establishing first Yugoslavia. In your opinion, what was their role?

Yugoslavian idea originates among Croats in the last century as a counter-balance to policy of Vienna and Pest. It was believed that it would be easier to cut off Croats from Germanic and Hungarian influence if they live in association with other South-Slavic nations. On the eve of falling to pieces of Austro-Hungarian monarchy, Yugoslavian idea was getting more and more supporters internationally as well as in Croatia. In few words, Yugoslavian Board was founded with few members freemasons. They were not majority in this board, but their influence was dominant due to their relations with some English politicians freemasons. Among Croats in this board was freemason Ivan Mestrovic, but at his old age he sober up from Yugoslavian policy.
There is no saying that Yugoslavia was created by freemasons. It was made by political interests in the Europe after World war I. From this point that period is still not researched adequately. It would be worth analyzing if those people were satisfied with Yugoslavia later on. It should not be forgotten that in 1918 majority of the National Council was approving integration of Croatia into Yugoslavia. Mr. Stjepan Radic was one of the rare politicians who were warning that Croats should not run recklessly to Belgrade like geese in the mist. Well, are freemasons to be blamed for founding Yugoslavia and that it was as it was?
Founding multinational states, at any cost, on the area of Austro-Hungarian monarchy, was a mistake. Not only Yugoslavia, but also Czech-Slovakia, which was at significantly higher civilization level and where differences between Czech and Slovak people were much smaller than between two dominant nations of ex-Yugoslavia.
At the end of World War I nobody thought that it is a political decree, which puts two dominant nations, belonging to two different civilization backgrounds, in the same state. Frauds and lies started at the very beginning. Croatian politicians thought they united to an equal footing association, and Serbian politicians thought they liberated and won Croatian areas. It lasted so till 1990.

Yes. They appeared immediately after founding of Yugoslavia. Differences were of such size that part of Croatian freemasons separated from official masonic organization in Yugoslavia and established own lodges. Those lodges were not internationally recognized.

Considerable part of Croatian freemasons didn’t accept relations inside Yugoslavia. Strongest masonic center was in Zagreb, Croatia. But, by establishing Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes and due to masonic rules, Croats in Zagreb had to adjourn their Grand Lodge which was in Zagreb during Austro-Hungarian monarchy since 1918, because Croatia was autonomous province. Namely, Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes was one political unit, so it could exist only one Grand Lodge, which could be recognized by Grand Lodge of England.
When masonic headquarters moved to Belgrade, opposition in Zagreb was so strong that many people come out of lodges. They established Grand Lodge of Croatia, which was not internationally recognized. This part of Croatian masonic history is still not researched adequately and it won’t be easily since in the eve and at the beginning of the World War II all documentation about this period was destroyed.

Of none. Croatian Freemasonry today is completely new. There is no connection with Freemasonry in Yugoslavia before World War II, since we don’t even physically continue it. Freemasonry was prohibited for half a century and when we started to establish new Croatian Freemasonry no living members of prewar lodges were known. That is why prewar freemasons with their attitudes or choices could not influence selection of today's members.
Croatian freemasons are from the very beginning citizens of free and independent Croatian state and they are selected as Croatian citizens. Austrian Grand Lodge established its Deputy Lodge in Zagreb with aim to restitute Freemasonry in Croatia at the moment when Croatia was already internationally recognized state.
One of the basic masonic commitments is abiding of laws of his country and protection of its internal piece. For freemasons, we were looking among loyal Croatian citizens. I will not propose somebody if I am not sure his attitude about Croatia is like mine. People are always choosing people alike and taking care whom they will let into their company. But we should be aware that mistakes are always possible and that is why our internal sanctions exist.

Today, again are raising ideas about renewal of some kind of Yugoslavian association. Croats abandon this idea but its center moved to Belgrade. Those ideas have support of some international circles, but foreign politicians are not bringing it out openly but indirectly, from behind. What are your experiences in that sense?

In my personal contacts I have not met supporters of those ideas, particularly talking about Austrians who are close to us. My opinion is that those ideas about renewal of some kind of Yugoslavian association are probably actualized to prevent strengthening of association of Middle European countries.

Is it possible that masonic organization, internationally or locally, makes decision about work on renewal of Yugoslavian association?

Such decision can’t be made in any regular organization that is recognized by Grand Lodge of England. Purpose of Freemasonry is not dealing with politics, but with oneself, spiritual values, humanistic and ethical-philosophical aims. We are interested in stimulating tolerance and democracy, promotion of humanity and charity. Your question shows that many people don’t understand essence of Freemasonry. If Freemasonry dealt with politics it would be ruined long time ago. Certain policy is for certain period of time and has limited duration, but Freemasonry exists since year 1717.

But, why is there a restraint towards freemasons in the part of Croatian public? What is your opinion about existing doubt that Croatian freemasons could take a part in imposing of some kind of Yugoslavian association to Croatia?

I am quite sure that Croatian freemasons will never take part in that. I speak for myself, but I know all Croatian freemasons. None of them has such initiatives.
War in the balkans is heavy burden for the world. Majority of the people abroad does not care how it will finish. Thay just want piece. I am just writing short review of Croatian history at request of Grand Lodge of France to inform their members. Namely, newspapres will never bring data that Croatia as a state existed even in the 7^th century, that in 9^th century we got famous pope’s letter and that in 11^th century Croatia was eminent factor to be considered when military alliances were made. We allways were and remained Croatia – although in the frame of other ststes. We had continuity of sovereign rights which we finally used in the year 1991.
Why those doubts about freemasons? They come from ignorance, lack of information, certain interests or old prejudices. It will take long time before attitude towards freemasons will change in Croatia.

These doubts about freemasons and Yugoslavia will last till Croatian state does not fully stabilize?

Yes. By the way, Croatian state does not have any prejudices towards freemasons. That is very important to us. Many skeptics will change their attitude when they realize such approach of Croatian state towards freemasons.

Do you have contacts with freemasons in Belgrade, who established their Lodge in 1990?

We can’t have any relations with freemasons in Belgrade, till there is no relation between our countries. We, Croats, won’t ask for establishing relations, because we were those who were humiliated, especially with this last aggression on Croatia. Although freemasons do not deal with politics, I have to say that our condition for contacts with freemasons in Serbia is preliminary solution of basic issues between two countries and than between freemasons on both sides. These basic issues include attitude towards aggression, humiliation, ethnic cleansing, disapproval of Croatian right to its territory and similar. Austrian Grand Lodge knows for this our condition because we told them openly and clearly.